Adding new things and advancing a product is great. Before you ask for a feature, ask yourself this - is this a feature of a forum or a feature of another application? Remember, SMF is a forum.

What is SMF?
It is not a calendar. It is not an ad system. It is not a chat client. It is not an arcade. It is not a CMS. It is not a portal. It is not a email management system. It is not a site directory. It is not a search engine. It is not a wiki. It is not a blog. It is not a text editor. Last but certainly not least, it is NOT a toaster. It is a FORUM

It's only a little feature. Not a big deal to develop.
The developer has a lot to take in to consideration when putting a feature in to a product. The developer has to create the feature. The developer has to keep up with bugs. The developer has to keep up with security issues. The developer has to be concerned with performance. The developer has to be concerned with application size. The developer has to make sure that the it will work in all systems. Above all, the developer has to remember what this product is - a forum.

Less is more
Less time worrying about new features means more time making the things that SMF already has better.

</rant>

heya

you forgot to open your rant with

<rant>

Quote from: groundup on April 14, 2007, 11:34:06 PM
Last but certainly not least, it is NOT a toaster. It is a FORUM

Well said, groundup! It's a forum, and that's a timely post.

Quote from: ladynada on April 15, 2007, 05:43:58 AM
heya

you forgot to open your rant with

<rant>

First word in the subject is "Rant". Not opened with <> but this is "GroundupML". Where you don't need a opening tag, just a word and a closing

Good rant

Quote from: groundup on April 15, 2007, 12:54:41 PM

Quote from: ladynada on April 15, 2007, 05:43:58 AM
heya

you forgot to open your rant with

<rant>

First word in the subject is "Rant". Not opened with <> but this is "GroundupML". Where you don't need a opening tag, just a word and a closing

<rant="Mistakes">
Technically, this is a forum-based coding system, following loosely aside HTML 4.01, meaning you are required to have an opening tag of <rant> or <rant="VALUE" attribute=.......> for it to be proper coding.  </rant>

Quote from: Coldfx on April 15, 2007, 06:40:03 PM

Quote from: groundup on April 15, 2007, 12:54:41 PM

Quote from: ladynada on April 15, 2007, 05:43:58 AM
heya

you forgot to open your rant with

<rant>

First word in the subject is "Rant". Not opened with <> but this is "GroundupML". Where you don't need a opening tag, just a word and a closing

<rant="Mistakes">
Technically, this is a forum-based coding system, following loosely aside HTML 4.01, meaning you are required to have an opening tag of <rant> or <rant="VALUE" attribute=.......> for it to be proper coding.  </rant>

WRONG! This is groundupML! Meaning, it is non-structured and there is no such thing as 'malformation'. It isn't forum-based and it isn't even loosely following HTML. I created it and own the copyright on it. I will be releasing a RFC shortly.

One thing I want to add to this?

One of my main attractions to the community is the absolutely insane things people manage to make SMF do. I give very high marks to the dev team for providing something so capable of being modified that people are able to turn a forum application into a CMS, a whole site, a blog of sorts, etc...

The way that people have taken SMF and truly molded it into what they want really is amazing and the way that it is done in SMF is even more amazing.

That being said - I think (in my mind) the difference between a feature request and a modification request is this:

"Does it add to the core functionality in a way that improves the user experience for the vast majority of people and is it truly required and/or help SMF, as an application, achieve its goals?"

If the answer is no then it is a modification. From what I have seen, most of the feature requests are better suited for the modifications request section.

<mini_rant>
Though I still think a random function in SSI.php is a legitimate feature.
</mini_rant>

QuoteLast but certainly not least, it is NOT a toaster.

ah now i know why my DVD drive died, i thought SMF had a toaster function

more features.. try Mambo/Joomla  with smf in it

hi kann mir einer detscher mir behilflich sein unswar wollte ich fragen was für ein forum das ist über programme downloads oder bilder oder sons was

danke...

Also due to the large number of feature and mod requests I would like to ask that everyone asks themselves, "Do I really need this?" before making a request. Sure it may sound good to you at first, may save you a few seconds with the added functionality, but do think of the coders who are spending up to hours writing mods or adding certain features into SMF.

I am not saying that you have to opt out of posting your requests almost always, I am just asking you all to think about what you are asking for (and remember that code doesn't magically fly from our fingers, it takes time), so if you really figure you will want such and such feature, then do ask. But it wouldn't be so great if you ask for something that you never end up using, but it takes someone 5 hours to code.

"Will the community as a whole benefit from and use this?"

Maybe a doc to elaborate on what is and isn't a feature request vs. what is and isn't a modification request? No... A FAQ perhaps.

Quote from: Coldfx on April 15, 2007, 06:40:03 PM<rant="Mistakes">
Technically, this is a forum-based coding system, following loosely aside HTML 4.01, meaning you are required to have an opening tag of <rant> or <rant="VALUE" attribute=.......> for it to be proper coding.  </rant>

GroundupML has optional begin and end tags, like the <html> tag in HTML. They are required only when adding attributes to the element, or for stylistic effect.

Quote"Will the community as a whole benefit from and use this?"

Maybe a doc to elaborate on what is and isn't a feature request vs. what is and isn't a modification request? No... A FAQ perhaps.

Not to mention one nothing why some mods become part of Core and some stay as mods.

Quote from: groundup on April 14, 2007, 11:34:06 PM
Last but certainly not least, it is NOT a toaster. It is a FORUM

Oh...so that is why my bread is soggy! 

I agree that some of the features don't matter, but if a feature , like a calendar, is wanted, it should be made. It does not hurt preformance, it will make the people happy and stop asking for it  . I just think that some things should be integrated to make the members (both here and of the users forums) happy.

I know Grudge has said that it doesn't hurt performance, but I disagree. Although the run-time performance affect of the software might be minimal. There is also development time, bug testing and debugging, and those small hits on performance.

Before I ask for a feature, I always ask myself: "how much is it gonna weight it down".

I avoid asking for many features, simply because It doesn't need to be weighed down with anything that will slow it's performance.

But that's just me.

Hey... I came to this site (almost randomly, in fact) and after reading the features (looking for security advantages over phpBB AND toaster),  was considering downloading it and painstakingly customizing it...

...I can't believe you won't put the Make Toast feature in!  I'll never find the perfect forum *sniff*

You can say that focusing on forum features could be slightly myoptic, afterall forums have numerous drawbacks and the recent success of web2 applications like myspace, facebook, wikipedia, youtube, etc shouldn't be ignored by SMF. If SMF can learn something from the world around them then it most definitely should.

Look at what specialization has done for the human species and tell me that doing one thing and doing it well isn't a good thing.

Quote from: groundup on November 19, 2007, 06:00:16 PM
Look at what specialization has done for the human species and tell me that doing one thing and doing it well isn't a good thing.

If you were good at working a mule drawn barge, it wasn't a good thing once the railroads got fired up.  If you were only good at running or repairing steam engines, it wasn't a good thing once long distance trucking happened.    Being the best phonograph manufacturer on the planet isn't good for much these days.  What's the best Gopher server?  Best tape-based operating system? 

Specialization is for insects, adaptability is for survivors. 

Paul

Quote from: akabugeyes on April 19, 2007, 09:43:57 PM
Also due to the large number of feature and mod requests I would like to ask that everyone asks themselves, "Do I really need this?"

yes yes I really need many features.  .

Quote from: proberts on January 12, 2008, 03:09:39 AM

Quote from: groundup on November 19, 2007, 06:00:16 PM
Look at what specialization has done for the human species and tell me that doing one thing and doing it well isn't a good thing.

If you were good at working a mule drawn barge, it wasn't a good thing once the railroads got fired up.  If you were only good at running or repairing steam engines, it wasn't a good thing once long distance trucking happened.    Being the best phonograph manufacturer on the planet isn't good for much these days.  What's the best Gopher server?  Best tape-based operating system? 

Specialization is for insects, adaptability is for survivors. 

Paul

You can specialize and still adapt.

Quote from: GPGrieco on May 06, 2007, 11:45:51 AM

Quote from: groundup on April 14, 2007, 11:34:06 PM
Last but certainly not least, it is NOT a toaster. It is a FORUM

Oh...so that is why my bread is soggy! 

I agree that some of the features don't matter, but if a feature , like a calendar, is wanted, it should be made. It does not hurt performance, it will make the people happy and stop asking for it  . I just think that some things should be integrated to make the members (both here and of the users forums) happy.

I tend to agree. I'm coming from a different back ground of course.  While I agree SMF doesn't need every feature ever thought up it also needs features to be competitive and anything to make routine actions easier or better is always good.

Plus the software has to evolve and be competitive.

I think personally even little changes can make big differences.

I think its important that developers be willing to put a change in even if its small, as it improves the experience as a whole.

I'm coming from a Pro Boards back ground here and Just now looking at SMF.  So this is an outside take on the issue of features . vs. mods.

I understand that SMF is part time but even the simple things can make the forum even better.

For example SMF has merge and split (I current don't have these in proboards) and these little features are a draw just by themselves.

Running lean is always good but you don't' want to be lacking features either.

SMF has most of the built-in features that could be needed in my opinion, especially with version 2.0. Besides we have a powerful Mod Site which has 700+ mods inside.

Quote from: Miraploy on November 18, 2007, 08:54:30 PM
You can say that focusing on forum features could be slightly myoptic, afterall forums have numerous drawbacks and the recent success of web2 applications like myspace, facebook, wikipedia, youtube, etc shouldn't be ignored by SMF. If SMF can learn something from the world around them then it most definitely should.

Which is why SMF itself is becoming more adaptable. While our developers can focus on making the best darn forums, others can write bridges to tie SMF with their software.

Products that offer an array of varying features are like that portable stereo or all-in-one TV/VCR/DVD. They are designed to work tightly together and you can't break apart the components, but the functions they do are all mediocre and when one breaks, it could take down all the other functions. When the screen goes out in that TV/DVD combo, you lose the functionality of the DVD part of it.

SMF is like a component system. Sure, you have to deal with a few wires, but you can hook it into the best products elsewhere to make something that fits your needs exactly. You'll even be able to get the best quality for each part. You can get a CMS/Portal system you like, a link directory product, and tie these things all together (assuming they are as flexible as SMF) to build your site. If something goes wrong with one piece, you can always swap it out and not lose the function of the other pieces.


In addition, SMF has some pretty good framework-level abilities you can custom-code around. I'm working on making some applications for a website that use SMF's permission framework for user authentication and authorization.