Finally, an SMF 2.0 Update
Hey everyone,
It has been quite sometime since the last blog post about SMF development was made. Although I'm not the best blogger in the dev team, I thought I would say a "Hi!" and give some information about what we have been doing for the past months. As you would expect, there have been quite a few changes since then.
As you may already know, TE, ^, Compuart^ and karlbenson left the team during the past few months. We can't thank them enough for what they have done for SMF - Thank you very much guys! On the other hand we had Norv joining the development team as the lead developer, me as a core developer and Antechinus, and Nas as user interface developers. Not to forget Nao, who has been helping with development for the past two months as a consulting developer and a dozen of Beta Testers who have joined the ranks along with the new and existing members on the support, customization, documentation, internationalization, and marketing teams. So, rest assured, the team is back up and running!
In fact, over 200 entries have been added to changelog since the release of RC3 in March. During the last three months 72 issues were reported to our tracker and 122 issues were resolved. At the moment I write this, there are 50 open bugs in our tracker, some of which are show-stoppers for RC4.
So, what does this all mean? It means SMF 2.0 RC4 will be out soon. I cannot give an exact date, but it's definitely very soon.
It has been quite sometime since the last blog post about SMF development was made. Although I'm not the best blogger in the dev team, I thought I would say a "Hi!" and give some information about what we have been doing for the past months. As you would expect, there have been quite a few changes since then.
As you may already know, TE, ^, Compuart^ and karlbenson left the team during the past few months. We can't thank them enough for what they have done for SMF - Thank you very much guys! On the other hand we had Norv joining the development team as the lead developer, me as a core developer and Antechinus, and Nas as user interface developers. Not to forget Nao, who has been helping with development for the past two months as a consulting developer and a dozen of Beta Testers who have joined the ranks along with the new and existing members on the support, customization, documentation, internationalization, and marketing teams. So, rest assured, the team is back up and running!
In fact, over 200 entries have been added to changelog since the release of RC3 in March. During the last three months 72 issues were reported to our tracker and 122 issues were resolved. At the moment I write this, there are 50 open bugs in our tracker, some of which are show-stoppers for RC4.
So, what does this all mean? It means SMF 2.0 RC4 will be out soon. I cannot give an exact date, but it's definitely very soon.
Ohhh nooo
oooohhhhhnooooooo
I have to upgrade many forums and mods
Remember folks it is a forum not a boy band.
Norv has been digging out the old bug topics when I was away.
Question: will there be many changes in templates for RC4? Related to bugs or just improvements?
Not many. All We're doing is fixing things for cross browser support (IE sux) and tweaking a few paddings and floats here and there. So there are some minor template changes but nothing like the last lot.
You can run an RC3 theme on the latest svn and it'll work just fine. Some of the padding in RC3 themes will look a bit wonky on some pages but you wont notice much else except that things will be less broken in some browsers. From a themer's point of view it's not major drama.
Great
I've been running 1.1.11 but I think it might be time for a venture into 2.0 when RC4 is released.
Well, things change. And right now SMF is in a good flow.
THATS what I like to focus on, at least. Others can go use PhpBB or whatever lol, doesn't change the fact that SMF is one of the best forum scripts out there.
Too bad it came at the time when I resigned! Bad timing eh?
SMF2 RC3 is stable enough. I'd call it SMF 2.03 if it were just up to me.
The only difference between a RC and the final version, is that when the final version is installed, you can upgrade it with patches. But if you make sure to record all of your edits into a diff patch (or simply only use the mod system), you can easily upgrade RC's, too. That's why so many users choose to use SMF2, even in RC, rather than SMF1.
The only difference is that you don't get to use the OOP stuff. But as for OOP being faster... I don't think so.
But SMF will go more open source in the future. At least that's what all of the team wants. From what I've heard. And I support them in that direction, too.
Thanks for the update!
A great debate on this subject would not have been totally useless. Too bad it was not possible.
Thanks developers
Thanks developers
SMF 2.1
(The cat was my ex's. My girlfriend has a dog.)
I guess it's fine, just as long as no one tells the actual secret behind Saguaro, I mean th
That's my theory and I'm sticking to it!
QUICKLY SOMEBODY BAN HIM, HE KNOWS TO MUCH!!!!!
ACTIVATE PLAN B!
Ohhhh booooy! That will probably delay things further. Just tell MS to quit making IE, it is useless piece of junk!
IE9 is very standards compliant, more so than FF3.6
Well, if you're going to compare a preview release, do it for both.
IE9 gets a 95/100 on the Acid3 test (compared to 94/100 for the current FF and a 20/100 for IE8 - which shows why IE DESERVES the bashing). But the 4.0 beta3 preview of FireFox scores 97/100.
But, I'll admit that it's good that IE has finally decided to join the rest of the world.
The IE subject was covered before. It isn't hell. It is still catching up to the world. Live on.
The simple fact that this far on in the game IE's still catching up speaks volumes.
PS not Naos post
On another note, thank you for the update, [SiNaN], and you folks, for the comments.
I just installed RC3 LOL.. hoping it is like how I upgraded 1.1.11 to 2.0 RC3.
Thanks for this and cannot wait for RC4 to come out
certainly is
And I've used netscape too.
And some of them still run .. yesterday I found one
Fel
It was probably IE 2.0 at minimum. IE 1.0 was only released as part of the Windows NT 4 Option Pack.
I started with Netscape 1.1N on Windows NT 3.51 in a university computer lab, well before the thought of a suite of applications was ever conceived. This was back when mcom.com was still a valid domain for Netscape's site (it redirects to AOL now, the current corporate owner of what used to be Netscape Communications Corporation).
Um, of course it wouldn't. CSS didn't exist back then. You used font tags as they were in the HTML 2.0 specification.
http://dev.simplemachines.org/mantis/
another question (because i am thinking of upgrading in rc3)
the simplemachines forum is pretty stable but i noticed is some kind of a revised version and not rc3 it says at the botton REV 10070, i am wondering if i download from the main site the rc3 will it be just like here, i mean the rev10070 or with some flaws that might be fixed at the current establishment?
PS are we having any new estimation for RC4? on 30 July it was "soon" (no pressure guys we all know how hard you try and the difficulties you come up to)
The current version on this site, is something between RC3 and the next release (whatever that one is).
Contradiction... look at your sig. It may be wise to remove the "notice".
Their are currently 38 open bugs left for 2.0. Many have been assigned, with only 5 tagged as major.
However this is for beta testers/Friends/Team members view. The count for those who can't see private issues.
36, with 4 tagged as major.
/Jade
LOL... just joking
And yeah, we're making another one of these posts. Hopefully it's going to be something like this one.
Nu Shooz can't wait either.
Btw, I know 2.0 is feature-frozen right now, but you guys really have to increase the pace with new features / themes and improved usability / flexibility to keep up with other software like IPB and MyBB (and there seems to be a new kid on the block - XenForo) that have been improving a lot in the last year or so.
vB/IPB/xF all compete with each other, not really with SMF, as free and paid software are their own fields. The only real competitor with SMF right now is MyBB.
Granted, SMF has lagged behind for a while (and I don't think anyone will argue about that), but the future of Simple Machines is looking better than it ever has.
That future some of us are working on, this very moment, at 4 a.m. in the morning, for many hours, reviewing code revisions and bug reports, retesting packages, debugging issues, and thinking in the back of the head the trade-offs of further versions. Maybe ... some of us were meaning to see a movie tonight for a change, instead. However maybe, just maybe, that movie is paused for hours... to do "just one more thing", "and I'll be back at it"... Looks like I won't be back tonight though.
Don't think there's one only, in any case. There are many people working hard to make it happen.
Ah well, there'll be a better time for movies anyway. In the ... future.
That future in which I will indeed see a movie, and Eliana Tamerin and her Black Cat will be upgrading their SMF.
View Only Boards
You can call it anything you like. Bu the fact remains that these arguments are holding back Smf and the whole communities that depend on it. Smf it is the only that is suffering from this.
We all use argumentation on a daily basis, and you probably already have some skill at crafting an argument. The more you improve your skills in this area, the better you will be at thinking critically, reasoning, making choices, and weighing evidence.
Chill out, arguments aren't holding back SMF anymore. Yes, there were big problems earlier this year, and the community heard about a bit of it, but what you guys haven't heard is that it's almost all over. Once the NPO is finalized and owns SMF, it'll all be done and over with.
You joined after the apocalypse, so you missed the cause of much of it. Bad feelings still run deep, and there is much impatience all around to fix the issues and get SMF back to its glory days.
Many are frustrated as they watch their pride and joy (SMF) fall behind the competition due to internal issues that have now dragged on for years. SMF is not dead but it's fallen from greatness and we desperately want to see it return there. Anything that impedes that gets people riled up... even moreso as it drags on and takes longer to resolve.
Bump. Update? Haven't seen such a post yet, and the above quoted text was from October.
http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=407256.0
my opera mini scores 97/100 on acid3 as well woop-wooop opera mini!
Er no, don't reply.
Everything else should take a back seat to that.
Fel
Look in the bug tracker. There are no more major issues, only the documentation. So the gold Edition is near. The only stopper until now is the transformation from LLC to something other. But I do not know which tasks there are needed or how long it will take.
But you are right: If the release is out there will be a great rush in this community. And they already said that some minor issues, not really worthy to talk about, will be solved after release. So it could be every day?
Also for us
Fel
Why not in 2012?
2012 ... bad word. Very bad word!
when we have an update, we will post one.
At the moment they are having some delays which is explained at this other thread.
http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=402014.0
If it were down to me, I'd have been working on the dev stuff in the background so that when the legal stuff is done, it's ready to go.
As it stands, nothing's being done *until* the legal stuff is done - which means that even after that roadblock is dealt with, there's still going to be a wait while 2.0 is finished...
I have read that topic several times, but I want to know what is the current state of development.
Translation: the developers have essentially abandoned the project until an unrelated task is complete.
Translation: Some of the developers may have decided to essentially put the project on hiatus until all legal matters are resolved.
I was being nice, but for all intents and purposes it might as well be.
That's the thing. The legal matters do not block *development*. They block release.
As it stands, we're waiting for the legal stuff, then another few weeks minimum to clear up the 40 or so outstanding bugs + testing. The legal stuff has already taken months, it may well take more months yet - THEN you have a further delay while the actual development ends.
I don't really see what the problem is with doing the development, finishing it off behind the scenes so that come the legal resolution, release can just *happen*.
Things should not stop just because the license thingy is holding up. And what about new versions? visions for the future and all that? I know some stuff is brewing
Stagnant might be a good word for the current situation.
The developers have given up at this point, and I don't blame them. Why would they want to spend their own time on a project that may just die because of the legal stuff? If I knew my work might never see the light of day and I was just working in my spare time, I'd probably do the same thing.
Even though I'm incredibly biased, even I would not be so heartless as to call it dead.
It's not dead, but I sure as heck don't blame the developers if they would rather not work on SMF until issues are resolved in one way or another.
I have had plenty of unfortunate events with my life during the past month or so and haven't been doing much coding. Norv and Antechinus have been caught up in real life as well.
I'll try to write up a quick development update for 2.0 in a few days. I know Norv has been working on a blog post about future of SMF, a small visionary blog post, as Bloc calls it, and he should be posting soon too.
I know I may sound foolish for suggesting this (yes I'm optimistic), final release for 2.0 should come with new default theme (including for SMF website)... it should mark a new start after a really long journey...
It was relatively new in November 2009 when it was first made publicly available.
For such a gap between 2009 and 2011, at least SMF should come up with a cosmetic lift for the Curve theme.
Besides what was the new theme for 2009 can not be the new theme for 2011. We've been seen this theme for a while already..(and still no final yet)
So coming final, a refresh look won't do any harm...
I know that, and I totally agree with that. I just said that upon the 2.0 Final release, Curve won't be "a new theme" anymore but still, it is a great enhancement since Core (I believe that was the previous default theme's name).
SMF 2.1 or what the next one will be, would be a prime candidate though.
First the SMF team. SMF2 has been in the making over 5 years, so will future development be restricted to the same slow, slow speed? Or has it been so slow purely because of all the 'dramas' that have abounded, and the team will emerge on a post-v2 gold world with renewed vigour and determination to take SMF ahead of the competition again?
Second, the gold release of v2 will allow release of 'forked' versions of SMF and I know already of one in development. Thus we will not only be able to chose what mods we install, we will be able to choose what base software to use.
Interesting times indeed
Mantis (the bugtracker) has seen a spike in activity recently which could mean that clear skies are ahead. Plus all of the legal thing-a-mabobs will soon be settled and then focus can once again shift back to the development of the software.
So at this point it might be safe to say that most of this stormy weather will soon be a thing of the past.
Competition is good for the consumer and so as a 'consumer' I hope both the SMF team and any fork or forks are successful and drive each other forward.
I agree that competition is good, and the main thing that was holding SMF back from being able to compete at it's best was all of this transfer stuff. Now that things are moving forward again I would say that at the very least we should see things with a positive light. The same light that is at the end of this dark and dreary tunnel.
Norv has said that preparations will be made so that future releases will occur more quickly. We can either take his word for it, or not and still end up in the same place (so we might as well trust that he is correct). And everything I have said before, mainly about Mantis, is evidence that the team does indeed have renewed vigour to get everything back up and running again. Those were the very same questions you asked before.
The very last spike at mantis last only one day ... so that is not much. I think thze one sign missing makes more troubles as it should be and at this stage this could be the death knife to SMF.
Someone needs to push the team, eh??
I've watched people come n go for years, watched arguments flare and dissipate for years, witnessed the "loss/corruption/silence" of some truly inspiring people for some time now, luckily some "change hats" and stay within the community. But there are always others which come through and help pave the way, fill the gaps and bring forth the sense of excitement which fuels such projects.
As an end user and moderate contributor, I give thanks to all that have helped the project reach it's current status, and admire those battling against the 'system'(for lack of a better blah blah) for improvement, stability and the step closer to .............. perfection?? ?? ... or Completion.
Thousands use this software, and thousands use the 'enhancements' offered. This will always be the case, Unless another project takes hold of the reigns, and creates that .. WOW factor, which I believe SMF still holds against the others.
I for one cannot wait to see and experience the first release of the 'fork', and also future ideas brought forth by mod developers, themers and those which share their ideas informally.
They call me Sabre, Im half asleep, drunk, lookin for a pack of chips, and this is my nonsensical reply.
Thank You for reading, and NO you may not have that minute of your life back.
It's not the duration, it's the why. SiNaN has said himself that all of these troubles has been demoralizing for the Dev team. The sign that they would want to start picking up development again means that they see that there is finally and end to this.
Or it could just be that SiNaN was able to get some free time and work on fixing bugs. Who knows.
Instead of telling us to move on, why not lead the way? Instead of telling us how it's going to be wonderful and shiny, do something towards making it so, like suggesting bug fixes.
Some things are left unforgivable and unforgettable.
Nothing is unforgivable or unforgettable.
History can not only be erased and/or forgotten, it can be re-written.
As for the specific instance of Simple Machines.
1- You, like much of the public, have no idea of the specific details of "the SMF January split", so every time a non-team member cries that cry, I shake my head in bemusement at the psychology of groups and followers.
2- with only a few exceptions, the people involved in that split are no longer on the team. The ones that are are working within the new organization (see next point).
3- the entire organization has since been reorganized - such an attempt could not happen with the new organization.
4- the SMF Friends and team who were involved in one side or the other have all moved on. Why can't you?
All of the people directly and indirectly involved have let it go, moved on, or rejoined.
The only people obsessing over it, these days, appear to be those who were indirectly and tangentially involved in the fallout conversations.
many = mayority
actually, I am a student of history (although most of my interest ends at about the 1800's).
And you are distinctly and very obviously wrong. History can (and frequently IS) rewritten -- sometimes it is immediately re-written. Remember "history is written by the winners".
Perhaps I should be more clear though.
$events != $history;
$events['perception'] = $history;
and perception is very easy to change.
Well, I'm just a user but surely you jest when you say it didn't affect "those who were indirectly and tangentially involved in the fallout conversations"? The delay in development caused by the issue affected all SMF users. Right now I think the only real thing most of the users obsess over is when SMF 2.0 FINAL will finally be released. (Yes, I know, when it is ready!)
I said that the only people who are still obsessing over the occurrence itself (as opposed to any delays in releasing 2.0) are those who basically got involved with a "OMG, I can't believe what I just read. OMG, me too"
Live... I really have no idea what you are on about or what AeMe has to do with anything said here.
It's the most ridicolous concept of saying this small as a software internal thing in comparision of something that can't be forgotten, such as a tragedy...
But I think only a few people could talk about "forgetting" or "forgiving"... and there aren't in this thread right now...
Well, you misunderstand me, lets use your "lose a relative" example to illustrate my point.
Lets say (hypothetically of course
He will certainly will not forget his sister, because hi is in a lot of pain, thats totally understandable.
but you, who barely spoke to her and barely knew her, you have way more chances to easily forget about her and continue with your life. (your friend will do the same eventually.)
In SMF case all those (or the big majority) directly involved have already move on. And if those who really experienced what happen already move on, why someone who wasn't even directly involved haven't?
note that I didn't say that J10 was easy to forget... because its not, so please do not misunderstand my words.
see my point?
That's not how it works...
I'm not saying anything on my own... I'm only echoing what they say.
True, they can move on and not forget about it... after all they have all the right to do so... they (people directly involved) can chose not to move on or move on, thats their decision... a decision that only belongs to them... regular users and those who wasn't directly involved has nothing to forget or nothing to move on as is the case here.
Both parts have a reasonable point. But making a "revolution" in something like this, is kind of useless since they don't have any power or live knowledge of what the others might think. And I (myself and no one else) think that the people who move on, actually are being kind of pushed away in what they express to be "moving on".
Thats my point, let the people directly involved handle their issues, we, the spectators have no right to engage in their issues.
Very true. Once you get on the team and read through the archives of the team boards, you discover the truth.
The only thing you discover by being a team member is a lot of info, nothing else, nothing more. how do you interpret that info, well thats another story
again, (and Im tired of repeating myself) people directly involved have all the right in the world to talk and discuss J10, the rest of us (you, Dismal, I, etc) cannot.
You cant write a book's review if you only had read half of it.
Edit, just for clarification purposes.
You are free to act or to think whatever you want about J10, problem is when you firmly believe you have the "true" or you are "right" when in fact you're ideas cannot be "right" or cannot be the "true" if you are unfamiliar with what exactly happen back there, the issue here is not weather if you can have assumptions or not... its the fact you simply cannot express those assumptions as "the absolute true". Nobody can.
I have my own assumptions about it, but I'm not posting my ideas around every time I have a chance... because I know my assumptions are incomplete and most important, it ain't my business
It wasn't just in the basic team boards, it went higher than that. Places you'll never see. A lot also happened in private IRC channels and IM. You don't know the truth.
It sounds like a pompous thing to say, but none of you were there, so you'll never know or understand what happened or why it became what it did. If you weren't there, just forget about it. It is no longer of any concern to you. Just as MAS said, nobody who wasn't on the team can fully understand it, so you all need to just let it go. It's insulting to those of us who had to go through it when you spout on about it.
Nobody asks anybody else to read a certain comment or comments, you do so of your own free will. So you alone reap and/or suffer the consequences/benefits.
Curiosity is a gauge to find more information, and your subconscious generates your own thoughts to share, in order to be corrected or approved by those 'in the know', which then increases your own knowledge of events.
Those which were not directly involved know they do not hold the whole story book, but by putting their feelers out, they gain another page.... {dejavu} .....or rustle a few feathers, like so.
I know, I know... "stfu Sabre, you dont know either", yeah yeah.. but Im waiting for my Maccas, and replying here was a nice way to waste time lol
Good luck to all, Good luck to none ~ good luck to me, my Maccas have come!!
mmMMMMMmmMMMmmMmmmmmm
split???
And actually he pretty much say the same thing I been saying since two pages ago... those who was directly involved have a choice, Big guy made his and so the rest of the people...
I was one of those tens (hundreds?) of forum admins who thought about moving to another forum software, and I didn't because at that time the other admins didn't wanted to. Now they want, and I don't. Things change, and SMF seams it's changing so I want to wait and see what's up to happen. Instead of talking about dramas, what about another SMF update? What about talking about another topic with news regarding SMF software and what's up to come after all the bureaucracy's done? That's what's really important for most of us, not the past dramas. If isn't solved, it's up to those involved to get over it and just only them.
I forgot, I forgave, and I aimed to make myself useful again in a project I still love.
Now, tell me what reason do YOU have to not let go of the past?
After reading through 12 pages I discovered that this topic is now more of an SMF team member debate rather than an update with the 2.0 software.
Perhaps the topic title should be changed. It now seems a bit misleading to those who may be interested in the actual progress of SMF 2.0.
We have told you that we are in the process of transferring the project completely from the LLC to an NPO,
and that process is currently going fine after some delays with getting signatures etc.
We have also told you (when RC5 was released) that the team is working on getting final ready and out the door ASAP
after the transfer is complete.
Oh dear lord...
Dismal... do you know that V actually fought for his own reasons and not somebody else's right ? you know... things that actually happen to him...
4 people directly involved have told us their point of view and told us that they already have move on... which of course does not mean J10 is totally forgotten... nobody has said that...
Move on
Ok that is a progress! so whats next, what is missing for releasing?
just because the paperwork is signed does not mean "we release this instant" since, in all the time it took to get this done, additional bugs were reported and fixed (or are in the process of being fixed)
Ok that are good news, which really could be reported and no need to be secret to the community ;-)
So now it makes sense to look at the bug tracker, some of the last months it was more frustrating to look there.
When the major and block issues are done it seems well to await a release within days I think (this step had we already ... last year!).
there was no hiding it... I would have thought that it was obvious.
but as for "last year", there were indeed plans to get this all done last year, but legal stuff got dragged out, etc etc etc.
I really can't belive that this happened.
You're welcome.
Oh and changing that "Former Troll" to "SMF Offical Troll" in your sig would probably be more appropriate.