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Did you miss your activation email? October 07, 2008, 07:23:31 PM
Did you miss your activation email? October 07, 2008, 07:23:31 PM
Developers' Blog
An update on 2.0
So, it's now mid-June and I feel it only fair to give an update on the status of 2.0 - especially considering we've said we are hoping to get the Charter Member beta out this month. I'm afraid to say it's highly unlikely that we're going to meet our target date of June for the first beta release. Unfortunately as with so many projects (least of all free ones) we've hit a couple of bumps in the road which have meant we're not quite where we want to be.
Firstly - the development team have been a little distracted recently. We've had a few long standing bugs to iron out with 1.1 that have taken precedence over 2.0 development. In addition both myself and Compuart have, until recently, been pretty much fully occupied in real life reducing the available resource on 2.0. All this in total probably means we've effectively lost a month.
Secondly - bugs. We've been working really hard the last few weeks to squash as many bugs as possible - and are now down to about 100 bugs on the tracker - but we need to get it lower still. Even though it's the first beta we're determined to release something that is reasonably stable and bug free - we don't want to chuck in a load of new features and find none of them work as expected. For this reason we've added very few feature improvements to 2.0 over the last six weeks - instead preferring to satisfy ourselves that we're going to be releasing a solid beta to the Charter Members.
It's however not all bad news. We've been cleaning up the user interface for the new features a bit the last few weeks and giving them a little spit and polish (Although more is required). I finally got around to adding some new SSI functionality that has been requested by the community over the last few months. We've added a few small but nice featuers like ignoring users - but these too need a little cleaning up. Importantly for me I've managed to track down and solve many of the reported WYSIWYG bugs which have been giving myself and users headaches the last few months.
So, in summary, we're a little late with our first beta release but it is getting there. I'm on holiday quite a bit in the next month and I doubt it will get released whilst I'm away but I'm hoping that we will get it out for our Charter Members by early August... but things can change. This does go to show why we don't normally give out release dates - because they can be missed.
Firstly - the development team have been a little distracted recently. We've had a few long standing bugs to iron out with 1.1 that have taken precedence over 2.0 development. In addition both myself and Compuart have, until recently, been pretty much fully occupied in real life reducing the available resource on 2.0. All this in total probably means we've effectively lost a month.
Secondly - bugs. We've been working really hard the last few weeks to squash as many bugs as possible - and are now down to about 100 bugs on the tracker - but we need to get it lower still. Even though it's the first beta we're determined to release something that is reasonably stable and bug free - we don't want to chuck in a load of new features and find none of them work as expected. For this reason we've added very few feature improvements to 2.0 over the last six weeks - instead preferring to satisfy ourselves that we're going to be releasing a solid beta to the Charter Members.
It's however not all bad news. We've been cleaning up the user interface for the new features a bit the last few weeks and giving them a little spit and polish (Although more is required). I finally got around to adding some new SSI functionality that has been requested by the community over the last few months. We've added a few small but nice featuers like ignoring users - but these too need a little cleaning up. Importantly for me I've managed to track down and solve many of the reported WYSIWYG bugs which have been giving myself and users headaches the last few months.
So, in summary, we're a little late with our first beta release but it is getting there. I'm on holiday quite a bit in the next month and I doubt it will get released whilst I'm away but I'm hoping that we will get it out for our Charter Members by early August... but things can change. This does go to show why we don't normally give out release dates - because they can be missed.
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But still Keep up the great work!!!
Looking forward to 2.0 (Whenever it may be!
Do you mean this?
http://blogs.simplemachines.org/
Edit: Added to BT.
Edit: its back
I look forward to any screens that can be posted. I know even an early shot can change but any changes made to the version released for testing will most likely be better anyway so a look at it at the moment would be nice and I don't think there would be any disappointment when the released version is seen because as noted it will most likely either look the same of better as changes are implemented.
Great work guys
sounds good so far. please, please, please take a look at some of the requests here when adding to 2.0: http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=166141
Thanks so much,
Brett
See this topic:
http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=163438.0
All the best to you all!
m
Excellent work.
wat is important the fave a stable version with new adds
so it's very inportan to have a stable version no' lake other board in one monthe we put a new bug
i hopp that you work 1st for security and add all wat user off SMF need
with this stratege i think you will be the best and best free board
and now you are the best
10x you a lot for this sweet and good work version 1.2 stable just need new addon lake editeur and advertising
If not THE top.
-ALM
The new features sound good. If you do implement all of them, I won't need the mods I have anymore
Semi-annouced release dates are good for keeping us at bay, and "most" should understand they are soft dates that can slip now and then (as long as were not having this conversation next June about 2.0....lol)
Keep up the good work guys, Thanks for the update and have a great summer!
Z
So it's opposite land! Crooks chase cops, cats have puppies!
-Homer Simpson
My server is low end, and not many people visit my site so I get a server generation time of around 0.33 seconds on the latest SMF install. It may take that time to generate the page, but when I'm on my LAN, it still loads up instantly.
My forum (http://www.daniel15.com/forum/) has "Page created in 0.076 seconds with 15 queries", most of the queries due to the sidebars I have (portal system with stuff like "Most popular topics"). If I use the default SMF 1.1 theme (which is unedited), I get "Page created in 0.051 seconds with 6 queries"
I'm on a relatively low-end system (AMD Athlon 2000+, 1 GB RAM, MySQL with default configuration, XCache), and it would probably be even faster on a more powerful system
I want to start translation into Hebrew
Thank you
Yeshai
So even when it is released I would suggest waiting a bit before you even think of upgrading your forum to 2.0 beta. This should give time for our language translators to get them done.
Like my site for example
-ALM
SMF is STILL using tables for layout in SMF2???
As far as I know, that's being worked on.
Not only that, but who really cares? Most of the forum users out there (if you count ALL forums out there) don't even know what a table is much less anything about HTML at all. It all looks the same in the end.
I understand that we are all CSS junkies here because we all work on websites ourselves, but in the end if it didn't make it into SMF 2.0 it wouldn't (or at least shouldn't) be a back breaking flaw IMO.
Unless tables suddenly do not validate under XHTML 1.0 (which is the standard SMF uses) then it shouldn't be a concern.
I really care!
Validation alone is not good enough, semantics are important for a variety of reasons and superfluous layout tables are a nightmare when it comes to customization. But, like Aäron said, it's being worked on.
Maybe it's just because I haven't seen the new SMF theme that's being "worked on" but I can tell you that if it looks the same as the current default theme then I don't see the point. But again, that's only my opinion and to be clear I'm not saying it's usless to switch just saying that there isn't a point unless you have the wow factor and show something really nice that can't be done with tables.
Anybody who has to create their own custom theme is going to care.
Divs = easy to modify
Tables = major pain-in-the-butt.
It's 2007, not 1996. Divs and CSS is the proper way to do layout. There is no arguing that.
Is there not anyone who knows how to do layout with Divs working on the development team. EVERYTHING--even development--is easier to do with Divs than with tables. Everything.
Go to any web development forum and tell them that you still use tables for layout and you are going to be seriously laughed at. I'd rather walk around in plaid bellbottoms, platform shoes, and an orange leather jacket than use tables for layout. Seriously, I'd be embarassed as a web developer to use tables for layout.
When I was learning web development 3 years ago or so everywhere I looked I saw "don't use tables for layout, don't use tables for layout". Why SMF has to be years behind the curve, I don't know.
Even phpBB--probably the chief competitor to SMF--is moving to Divs and CSS. There is no way SMF is going to be able to compete if they stick with tables.
I've seen criticism elsewhere about SMF having sloppy code. Using Divs for presentation would go a long way toward rectifying that.
Again, we are not in 1996 anymore. There is no good reason to use tables for layout. There is not a single valid argument other than "we'd rather spend the time working on superfluous features than get with the times and use Divs".
Using tables for layout is like buying a new car with an 8-track cassette player instead of a CD/MP3 player. It's ancient history.
I don't mean to be rude, but I think there is something that you just aren't getting.
1) Divs/CSS is the proper way to do layout. Does any more really need to be said beyond that?
2) Divs/CSS make customizing the theme significantly easier. Check out the Wordpress themes and see how easy they are to modify because they don't use tables for layout. Look how hard SMF is to modify because it uses tables AND has presentation buried in the Source files.
3) Divs/CSS make the development process easier, more efficient, and simplifies and unclutters the code. How can the developers of SMF claim that tables make development easier?
4) It really would not take long to develop a CSS/Div default theme IF the presentational code wasn't so buried in the Source files. (If this wasn't the case, I'd just make my own Div/CSS theme and make it available to others. A Div-based theme would be wildly popular.)
Also, I'm not particularly wild about the current default SMF theme. Making the SMF 2.0 theme look like the 1.x theme shouldn't be a priority. Even still, that is a moot point when you think of how easy it is to customize a theme when using Divs.
The only possible explanation I can think of is that someone learned web development in 1996 and never bothered to update their skillset.
Yes! Divs are just one type of element that can be styled with CSS and, while still an obvious building block for layouts, often unnecessarily used ('divitis').
[Unknown]?
Why such resistance to using Divs when it would be relatively easy to do?
SMF would work better, be easier to develop, be easier to debug, and be easier to customize if the presentation were separated from the logic and Divs/CSS were used for presentation.
I've made enough webpages to know the benefits of Divs/CSS.
http://webdesign.about.com/od/layout/a/aa111102a.htm
Web Page Layouts Shouldn't Use Tables
Read the above for a quick overview of why tables should not be used for layout.
Eh?
I think I've had "divitis" before. I've had "tableitis", too, when I had to customize my SMF theme. Symptoms are frequent bursts of anger, a pounding headache, the inability to get anything to work the way you want it to, and the urge to pick up your monitor and smash it to the floor.
I hope I never get "tableitis" again.
I'm talking about a forum template here and NOT design in general. I've seen many amazing tableless designs that are really good and I myself have made tabeless designs as well. And even still that was just my opinion. I understand that it would be easier to modify a template that doesn't use tables but honestly what are you going to do to a forum template that you can't do with the current tabled design? Which, has so few tables in it anyways!
It was not my intention to argue so I will just say this and them I'm done. If you are not going to break out of the box with a design, then why try to cut the tape? (if you will).
Again, just so you get it, I'm talking about a forum template here and not web design in general.
I'm not arguing divs v. tables (I'm with you on layout tables), but saying that divs are often used in CSS layouts when they're neither desirable nor necessary. If you need a div, use a div, but don't wrap everything in divs just because you think you're supposed to (and, no, this isn't directed at you personally, it's more of a general comment)!
1. Modify it without doing your head in (but you seem to have acknowledged that).
2. Make sense of it in a non-graphical browser.
Ah, finally, someone points out to me the purpose of this for a forum (other than it makes things easier, because that I understand). Thank you Peter. I try to keep up with the times but my current job has nothing to do with web design (or websites at all) so I'm a little rusty.
I didn't think of that but it makes sense and so I was actually going to ask you what you meant when you said "it's about how it works!" but saw that you had already answered.
I hope SMF 2 will feature way less tables then 1.1. There's no excuse to don't convert it.
Did you test that on all common browsers?
IE{5,6,7}, Firefox {1,1.5,2.0}, Safari {1.3,2.0,3.0}, Opera {8,9} just to name a few
It can go on but the deal is getting every browser to display it right
Now count the templates that are in the default theme. 56 templates, but most of them are very similar.
This thing is really old, it's been years that people say to move towards semantic layout.
anyhoo.
cant wait for SMF twooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. especially for this feature: http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=175812.
Why? It's relevant!
Do you know how few people even use IE5 anymore? My goodness, everyone should just forget about it. It's dead. Less than 1/2 of 1% of visitors to my websites use IE5.5 or under.
IE5 is ancient, buggy, and a huge security risk. There are plenty of alternatives out there. There is no excuse for anyone using IE5 and even less of an excuse for supporting it these days.
If people refuse to upgrade to something from this century, it is their problem. Further, I can't see how anyone could argue, if anyone would attempt to, that moving to Divs/CSS is not a good idea because a small minority of people are using ancient browsers.
See, there is no way I could customize the default SMF theme to Divs/CSS in an hour. I'm not very familiar with the code or the myriad of places where it is buried.
Now, if you can do it in such a short period of time, how come the developers of SMF can't? Again, we've established that there is no good reason to rely on tables anymore in this current era.
So why such stubbornness to move away from tables for layout? I just do not understand it.
Seriously, if one was familiar with the SMF templating system, such as a developer, it would not be hard to do away with the majority of the tables for layout.
People have been raising this issue for years now. That is why I was so blown away when I looked at the HTML for the SMF2.0 forum and saw it was a tabled layout.
At the rate SMF changes, if SMF2.0 uses a tabled layout, I wouldn't expect a tableless layout until 2009 or 2010 at the earliest.
Yup. I don't know how SMF can compete when it is relying on ancient tables for layout when phpBB is moving away from them.
Have you seen the new phpBB3 theme? Nice! Man, if SMF could do something like that, it would be great.
Anyone who knows anything about web design will tell you this: do not use tables for layout.
Hopefully the SMF developers who donate their time and skill into making the forum will take heed and make SMF even better by moving to a tableless layout.
Rudolph, if you were to release your div based template I bet you would have more than a few takers...
If 0.5% of users were on it and you had 100,000 users, you'd be disenfranchising 500 users by actively dropping it. So, no, I'm not suggesting going out of your way to 'support' it, but accommodating it within reason is still perfectly laudable.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=divitis
They can...
And they know that...
Look, half the Team have done semantic demo templates and AFAIK it's happening...
But not just because you keep harping on about it! So, sure, I'd welcome a clear statement from the Developers, but this perpetual all-out attack is achieving nothing that's not going to happen anyway...
It just requires time, Which in a project full of Volunteers it may take some time to complete the project. We all have lives we must attend to everyday, we have jobs we must go to, we have bills to pay (and for a few of us having to pay for all of this to be here). So around our daily lives that we must do we try to fit in some time to do this.
So thats why it make take some time. Not everyone has hours on end to sit there and redo stuff and such as some of us.
I have to do everything you listed up there, and even if I'm not a team member I actually try to fit in some time to work on SMF. Finding bugs, writing mods and well, I found one hour to work on this template stuff too. It takes time to finish one thing or another, sometimes months, but never years.
The problem is that SMF follows a closed development strategy, which has it's disadvantages. You ask people to contribute with ideas, feedback, but it gets ignored because the few developers (I think 3 at the moment) who are working on the project don't have time to look at it.
I assure you, Sleepy that those who have the skills and experience to contribute substantially to the project are all people with everyday lives, jobs and family. The problem is that most likely they just turn away from SMF, because it's quite hard to effectively contribute to the project for outsiders. No wonder that you don't find people suitable to become team members. You put up some bars, but you don't let people to reach them.
To pretend the issue you bring to the table (no pun intended!) has been ignored or not answered would be wrong.
http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=157209.20
Locked pending future updates.